A beautiful solar installation

Published on July 19, 2008 by Dave Llorens.
Categories: Solar Trends.

To date, this is the prettiest solar installation I have sold. It was in Oakley, Ca…. waaaaay out of my territory of San Francisco.

Our engineer gave the customer the specs required by code for the trellis, and the customer built the structure because he was a contractor. Then our guys came in and did the install, and it’s really pretty looking. They are going to put in pavers underneath it and some patio furniture. It’s a hell of a way to shade your patio.

The system is a giant for a residential application at 7.74 kW, and by the time I got there to snap these pics it had already generated 43kWh or electricity that day, and it was only 3:30 PM.

If you want to get your place checked out, click here to get a free solar evaluation in San Francisco, and here for a solar evaluation anywhere in the US.

9 ways your solar installation can get more expensive

Published on April 9, 2008 by Dave Llorens.
Categories: Solar Pricing.

Most solar installers will charge by the watt capacity of your system. This will run you about $7/watt, plus or minus a buck or so depending on where you live. So, for a “3kW” system (which is the number everyone always throws around) you are talking about $21,000. That’s BEFORE incentives, however. To make it confusing, every state has a different subsidy system for solar (which they shouldn’t). You need to learn what the specific solar incentives are in your state to really know what your final (net) price is going to be. But hey, that’s what we’re here for!

To make it even more confusing, solar contractors will add costs for certain things (most are reasonable while some are not). Standard Solar, on the other hand, has standardized their pricing. It seems to be working for them as they are doing quite well. While I’d like to see things move in that direction, here are 9 things you should be aware of which may inflate your cost of going solar:

1. Flat Roof Tilting. If your roof is flat, you must build some scaffolding to tilt it up towards the sun. That framework costs some money.

2. Different Roof Types. Some are harder to seal or flash, or find studs. Accordingly, some installers will charge more based on your roofing material. see more here

3. Distance. If you reside outside the regular service area of your nearest installer, there may be associated travel fees that will be passed on to you.

4. Monitoring Systems. Some solar companies sell monitoring systems which upload data about your solar energy production to the web. If these interest you, expect to pay a little more.

5. Trenching. Does conduit need to be run underground to near your meter? There may be a fee for that. This type of activity is generally associated with ground mounted systems… which brings us to….

6. Ground Mounts. If your system is installed in your backyard instead of on your roof, not only does your contractor have to build the framework but also secure it to the ground. That usually means concrete. Concrete, building a frame, and securing it to the ground costs money. Therefore, this type of installation is usually more expensive than installing a system on your roof. The upside? You get to aim and tilt the panels optimally for your region, whereas on a roof you are bound by the direction your home is already pointed.

7. Permits. Your region may have much trickier or more expensive building permits than the installer is used to. Therefore, you can expect higher fees for this.

8. Inverter Upgrade. Let’s say you want to install more solar down the road. Therefore, you could opt to purchase a beefier inverter to accommodate your planned upgrade for some extra money. For example, you might want to take advantage of utilities being required to pay for excess yearly production sometime in the near future. Currently they are not required to.

9. Service Upgrade. The inverter (the thing that makes the unusable DC current your solar panels produce into usable AC current for your home appliances) is like an appliance itself. It will need to be connected in your main breaker panel and there may not be space for it. This can create an issue and an electrician may need to install a sub panel, or your utility may need to upgrade your service (for example, from 100 to 200 amp service). You can tell what service you have by looking at the door to your main breaker panel, it should say (MAX AC) somewhere.

Now the fun stuff: DISCOUNTS!

• Employee Discounts. Aside from the state rebates, you may qualify employee discounts. For instance, if you work for HP, Google, or SunPower, you get a discount. Check with your employer!

• Group Purchase discounts. This is where many people get solar at once. Solar companies are going to start exploring this business model soon, but for now you can do it yourself if you have friends that are interested. If you call up an installer and have five serious customers in the same neighborhood, you can seriously lower overhead for the installer, and they can pass those savings on to you. Approach the installer about it.

Bottom line – don’t freak out about all this. The salespeople for your local solar company know their stuff and can explain all of it to you in better detail.

A Solar Installation Quote I made Today in San Francisco

Published on February 10, 2008 by Dave Llorens.
Categories: san francisco.

So what’s this stuff gonna cost me?

I’ve been getting more people asking for a brass tacks breakdown of what a residential solar power installation costs… so here you go.

I made this solar quote for a fellow in San Francisco today. He had an optimally tilted (21 degrees) and optimally faced (true south) composition roof with no shading… so his situation was pretty much perfect (for this particular location…. optimal tilt and azimuth maybe slightly different on the east coast). Here are the numbers:

Note: pricing is pretty linear, so if your power bill is bigger than his, scale the numbers up accordingly, smaller, scale down.

I used this site to calculate his California Solar Initiative Credit and all other incentives by putting in the average installed price these days in the area, around $7000/kwh. If you were to repeat this, DON’T USE THE DEFAULT cost, but input “7000/kW.” Also input 5000 kW system.  This will take care of 78% of this customer’s electric costs.

Also: According to the CSI calculator, you could owe an additional $1,388 Federal taxes because the rebates are considered income. We’re not tax attorney’s, so check with yours to be sure how this will effect you. If that’s the case, then your net system cost goes up to $18,369. All the other numbers are basically the same, however.

If you are interested in getting a home in San Francisco evaluated for Solar Power (yes, it’s free), please check out my new company One Block Off the Grid, which lowers the price of going solar on your home by using collective bargaining.

Note: This post was updated on 8/15/09, so prices may be lower when you’re reading this…or not.  To find out for your house in your area, just fill our our handy-dandy form, and we’ll get someone over to you to give you a free quote.

Nine Crucial Solar Installer Considerations

Published on December 22, 2007 by Dave Llorens.
Categories: Solar Trends.

So you want to get solar, but how do you pick a company to give you a quote? Once you have a quote or two, how do you pick the company? Well, here are 9 questions you should definitely consider before you sign any installation contracts.

#1. Where’s your contractor’s license number? Once you find it, look it up. All states will have a website to look up any contractor’s license and give you contractor tenure and standing. Your installer NEEDS to have a contractor’s license, period… Check it out and see how long they’ve been in the game and if they have any dings on their record.

#2. Where’s a second quote? If you get another quote, issues can come to the forefront which previously were unexamined: “Why didn’t other guy offer that?” Moreover, additional quotes will ensure cost competitiveness across installers. I hate to recommend this tactic as I work for an installer myself in San Francisco, but it’s really the best way. Don’t simply go with the cheaper one; Give them both a chance to explain where that extra value is. The more expensive quote could be advantageous if that contractor uses better installation procedures, higher quality parts, or extends greater warranty coverage.

#3. Does your contractor outsource their crew? This is a big deal. Many companies outsource their installations to other contractors. Consequently, the company quoting your project may not know anything about their installation crew or how they’re trained. If you have contractors installing solar power on your roof, they are going to be walking around up there, drilling holes in your roof… it’s serious stuff and you need to know they were trained properly. Ask your installer for specifics about their relationship with their contractors.  Look for terms like “installation partners,” in the contract.

#4. Get referrals. If the installer is doing a good job, it will show in the words of their past customers.  Get the names, addresses, and phone numbers of the latest two or three installations they have performed.  Call the customers and ask about their experience with the installer, and drive by and take a look at the work they did.

#5. Whose inverters are used? Solar power requires two things: Solar Panels and Inverters. Inverters turn the direct current (DC) your panels produce into usable alternating current (AC) to run your blender, microwave, tv, or whatever you want to run in your house. Some inverters are cheaper than others – some suck while others rock. To see what is the story here, avail yourself of a product review site. Personally (although I am biased), I like Sun Power’s products because there is no chance for confusion with warranty issues. You get Sun Power Panels AND Sun Power Inverters, you’re all good. For instance, our company has installed inverters 20 years ago that are still functioning beautifully. So, good ones are important. Just FYI, we found some problems with Xantrax inverters so we stopped using them (Might want to check to ensure installers in your area are not having similar problems). Finally, if the inverter is not large enough to handle the system, you could have problems. If you’ve done #1 above, this shouldn’t be an issue!

#6. What panels do they use? Do some research on panels! Again, I prefer Sun Power panels. They’re the prettiest and the most efficient I’ve found.

#7. What about turnaround time? Different installers will have different backlogs… Ranging from a few weeks to 8 months… get that up front so you can plan ahead and won’t be disappointed.

#8. Warranties? What are the warranty specifics? Has that solar contractor been around long enough for you to be confident they’ll still be there when it’s time to honor those warranties? Solar lasts a damn long time, the company installing this technology needs be able to outlive the systems they install.

#9. Are the quoted prices for my solar system reasonable? This is the tricky part. Pricing should be close to the same across the country, but solar incentives vary widely by state (Just look to the right hand column of your screen for visual comparisons). A nice round number is somewhere around $7 per watt capacity of your system (gross cost, before rebates and credits). Here are some examples of what solar power costs in the San Francisco bay area.  The key to this part is that second quote.  It will create price competition between the two installers to get the deal, at the same time time bringing to light issues you may not have thought of.  Unfortunately, the things brought to light often confuse and frustrate you.  DO NOT GIVE UP.  The last thing I would ever want is advice from this site to stop you from getting solar.  Yikes.  Hang in there, and ask for answers to questions you have.  If they don’t give them to you, find someone who can, but please don’t get frustrated and give up.