Why doesn't the PPA require you to have an electric bill for the excess power needs as well ? Seems the same regardless of Lease or PPA option …
Thomas, you are absolutely right. You are always connected to the grid for any excess power that you need. These are never battery based/off grid financing options. I've corrected in the post. Thank you for pointing out.
[...] Comments What’s the Diff? Lease vs. PPA on Cash Poor Financing: CityFirst/Municipal Financing Murray on West Virginia Solar Power Rebates, [...]
[...] Well, there are lot of innovative ways to finance solar these days. Solar Leasing and Solar PPAs are one of them. They all have their advantages….and disadvantages. I tell you no lies: Low money down, good. But…in the long run, you’re financially better off buying through a home equity loan or line of credit or municipal financing. Learn about the difference between a solar lease and a solar ppa here. [...]
[...] I’ve mentioned in previous posts, there are also other ways to buy solar, such as solar leases and solar power purchase agreements (solar PPAs). These are becoming more common and typically have low money down….but in the [...]
[...] good chunk of northern California, there’s over 700,000 customers who would show savings with SunRun’s PPA or SolarCity’s lease on day one. Even for people buying through a conventional home loan, the savings can be with in a [...]
[...] lease or a solar PPA, you DO NOT get the 30% tax credit or any REC payments, if applicable. The solar leasing or solar PPA company gets it. Too much to go into now, but this is why buying is better in the long run. That reminds me [...]
SolarFred, you’re missing one factor in just assuming you’re financially better off with a home equity loan or PACE than with a solar lease or PPA. True, you’re paying likely higher interest rates and giving a margin on finance to the leasing company – but unlike with a HELOC or PACE-backed cash purchase, the solar provider, as a corporate taxpayer can monetize depreciation, which can knock down the price 25% or more…
WOV, knock the price 25% off more for WHOM? The solar provider or the customer? The solar provider, really, increasing its profits. I’ve never see that benefit worked into the solar lease or PPA estimates that my friends get. Again, they do save customers SOME money, but if you are a long term thinker, you’re much better off owning through a home equity loan or through a PACE program. Especially PACE, if you plan to move before 15 to 18 years, or what every the lease/PPA term is.
I don’t mind Solar City, Sun Run, and other solar leasing companies making a profit for taking the up front risk and providing a solar service that home owners don’t have to think about. That has value. But until I see apples to apples comparison that show that consumers would save more on leasing/PPA than on HELOC or PACE, it’s fruitless to convince a solar educated person like me that you’re financially better off with a lease or PPA than with HELOC or PACE. Sorry, but facts are facts. I would suggest transparency and a different service/communication angle than claiming more savings.
25% (actually a bit better) savings to the provider, who then *could* pass it on the customer – you assume it doesn’t get passed on but that’s not a universal truth, just an assumption. It certainly *could* and whether or not it *does* depends largely on the degree of competition between SolarCity, SunRun, Sungevity, whomever else enters the space, and the various PACEs. That I think will step up in the near term.
You come at me for trying to convince you that you’re financially better off; I’m not. What I’m saying is it seems that when you’re doing your estimates on a sort of intuitive basis (“well, you’re paying the finance provider for their cash and value-add so it will always be more than HELOC or PACE”) you have to incorporate another factor – “though, they do have depreciation savings and PACE does not…”
But it the solar provider sells you the system at the end of a set period, aren’t they subject to depreciation recapture – negating the depreciation tax benefits?
Solar Fred – can you comment on differences in Sales Tax treatments for PPA’s and Leases? Are both subject to sales taxes?
Charles, I really can’t. I think the short answer is that it’s going to vary from state to state, but the best thing to do is to talk to your state’s tax authority. Very few accountants are familiar with what solar PPAs and leases are, let alone their tax treatments. Sorry I can’t be more help.
Do you guys have any idea what the Big Island of Hawaii is paying for residential energy right now $0.42 kWh while a good majority of the country is closer to $0.10 kWH. Every option out there is better than Hawaii’s rates (and the rates are only going up). I looked at three options for a PV system. PPA zero down with a fixed effective $0.30 kWh for 20 years. PPA Prepaid with an effective rate of $0.09 kWh for 20 years. Outright purchase of the industries best system with an effective rate of $0.075 – based on a 25 year period. The outright purchase gives me more flexibility for future changes to the system, but I really didn’t need additional tax credits, so the Fed and State credits really did me no good – even rolling over for 5 years. The Prepaid PPA gave me a great kWh rate, I didn’t have to deal with the tax credits, and my system is monitored, insured and maintained for 20 years. All I really want is to buy power at a fixed low rate, and I don’t really care that I don’t own the system.
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